The past few months and years, the church has become increasingly polarized on the LGBT debate. We have neglected to see the importance of what Jesus prayed. Our churches have become dysfunctional and our witness has diminished.
So at the core of our church’s discernment process has been — how we should live out the high priestly prayer. Jesus believed that unity is the very thing that would cause the advance of his kingdom.
It is not only the believing that there is only one Lord, one baptism, and one body of Christ, but it is to live it out in practice.
This unity doesn’t assume we will agree on all things. But it does assume that those who have come to faith in Christ are part of the “one faith, one baptism.”
And yet, each Sunday our churches are segregated by our theological and verbal disputes. And each Sunday, Christians are excluded from the table because of our disagreements.
As I’ve wrestled with Jesus’ high priestly prayer, I can’t help but see that the bigger question is — how do we practice what Jesus prayed? How do we welcome members of the LGBT community even if we are not all in agreement on same-sex marriage?
He brings up some very great points about not judging others or marginalizing people who identify something besides heterosexual, to the point where they are excluded from being a part of a local church meeting etc. This definitely echo’s Christ’s love for the judged/oppressed 2000 years ago. His view seems to be total acceptance of their behavior without any correction. His conclusion seemed to be that God makes people homosexual, and that’s the reason they identify in that way. Maybe I’m missing something, but I don’t see that anywhere in the bible. I do see not judging others, but what about correcting them in loving ways?
A thought I had, but not sure if it makes sense:
“garden (eating plants was the plan) is to vegan as garden (man and woman was the plan) is to heterosexuality?”
I was thinking, is this an idea like if someone who is vegan uses the garden as an example of why no one should eat meat. But they are explicitly told that this behavior is accepted now, so they don’t have any scripture to stand on to correct anyone? Maybe I need to just check out the other 5 areas he referenced in scripture to get a better picture on it. Do you have anything that could help me fill in the blanks in my thinking on this?
I have realized that I’ve had views in the past that were just told to me over and over, so I am totally open to renewing my mind in this area and would love any help you could provide.
Thanks
Andrew,
I know full well the challenges that come from a change towards homosexuals. For straight persons like you and me, the idea is seen as clearly wrong, and stirs up strong feelings of disgust for some at the idea of gay and lesbian couples. The question becomes, is there an interpretation of Scripture that allows same sex couples to be married. I believe there is.
Marriage is a sacrament, a place of Spiritual Blessing that only God can bless and only God can allow people to enter into. The thing is, in God’s Eyes, he doesn’t see male or female in the Spirit.
Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Even Jesus suggested that there were exceptions to heterosexual marriage, when he talked about God made Man and Woman in the Garden.
Matthew 19:11-12 But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given. For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother’s womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.
The debate is, can the Ancient Near East phrase Eunuch be extended to include Homosexual Men with no natural desires for women? There is evidence to suggest that it might. On these two points alone, I’ve realized I cannot deny that it is possible for Gays to enter into the sacrament Marriage and be blessed by God.
The way we correct in Love, is not by telling people to stop doing what they are doing, but rather to address the issues that lead to the behaviour. The reason we sin, I because we believe a lie. Truth is what makes us free, not telling someone that they must stop what they are doing.
While I believe that some homosexual behaviour can be the result of lies and abuse and other things that cause people to have those feelings, I cannot say with all certainty that there are no people who are born with those desires, even among Christians. But more importantly, that’s not job, God is the one who cleans us up.
What I don’t know in regards to the Theology, I know from the political. We cannot legislate morality. Banning homosexual marriage, will do nothing to keep homosexuals from being together. In the same way the Prohibition of alcohol only made things worse, we make way for abuses, when we force homosexual behaviour into hiding. I’ll side with people being honest, and open rather than hiding and faking.
I don’t have any other resources, but I’m sure there are plenty. Evangelicals for marriage equality is an activist group that is pursuing this at the moment. I haven’t read much of their material, but it’s possible they may have more.
https://www.evangelicals4equality.com/
I trust the Christ in you, to lead you into all truth.
Godspeed my friend.
Thank you for your response. At the time I wrote this, I had just been coming out of a very legalistic and religious worldview/community. I think my focus was more on finding the sin rather than loving people and not judging them. Since my original comment, I have shared Danny’s video with a number of people and based on their feedback, it has ministered much more love and opened up conversations than any argument or sin hunting could do.
Hey Brook. This is pastor Danny Cortez. Great thoughts on this posts. Thankful that you and others are engaging in this. I think part of the problem we have is that we are asking the wrong leading questions. One of the primarily questions people ask me is “what about the sin.” As our church has become third way, christian LGBT persons have started attending our church. And many of them have come from such hard places (expelled from christian schools, disfellowshipped from churches, abandoned by families, etc). For me, the primarily question is no longer a theological one but a pastoral one—How do we care for LGBT christians who have suffered much harm. And I think this second question is more in line with the great commandment. When we are led with a question that calls us towards how to love, it postures our hearts to understand what God calls us to do relationally (and therefore lovingly). When we are led primarily by the sin question, it becomes easier to act in judgement rather than grace.
I CANNOT AGREE WITH YOU Brooks. You’ve gone to far trying to compare eunuchs to homosexuality, and perverting the word “Love” with someone “desiring” the same sex. You of all people know darn well that they all suffer from an identity crisis because of either a past dramatic experience or society warping their perception on who they are to be if their a man or women natural! It has NOTHING to do with being eunuch! Are you completely ignoring the story of Sodom, and Gomorrah???
Apostle Paul make really clear that they are UNNATURAL relationships and are SHAMELESS acts. And if you go back to the old testament God calls the sexually immoral acts of Sodom, and Gomorrah an “Abomination!” Not just because they’re doing it towards “false idols,” but the fact that their doing it at all is sin! Brooks your validity through a couple scriptures is not helping you when answering from one case that is completely separate. Eunuchs become so for God and the ones born eunuchs are ISOLATED cases that they don’t really get choice because their BORN as hermafidite or without anything. You can’t assume ones that ARE NOT BORN WITH BOTH, BUT ARE CLEARLY A MAN OR A WOMEN are somehow allowed to choose whatever their LUST desires. It’s not of the Holy purity of Father God YodHeyVavHeh originally created. And the only reason that people born with both exist is a result of birth defect imperfection because of SIN. Hello. Again something your forgetting obviously. But to say someone is born with both should have a say which one to keep that is something I’d ask them to seriously pray about because of the complications of that very issue. I’m sure many of them face assuming they find the Lord before they choose. I doubt however that God is concerned if they don’t indeed find him before choosing. Their are to many testimonies of friends I know very well that were formerly gay or homosexual, and constantly explain Holy Spirit conviction about those evil desires become conscious after being saved unlike before where there was no conviction before they became believers in Christ, and God radically set them free from the lies the enemy put in them about their FALSE identity. You can’t convince me or ANYONE who knows these convicting testimonies that God’s okay with them choosing whatever they “desire”. How someone “FEELS” doesn’t make it okay Brooks. If some “desires” the same sex it’s because of some form of corruption from sin, or the satan and has not biblical leg to stand on. Unless they were born harmafidites which like I said before are rare isolated cases that are special circumstances. THOSE DO NOT APPLY TO EVERYONE ELSE THAT SIMPLY CHOOSES BECAUSE OF DESIRE.
Romans 1:20-32Revised Standard Version (RSV)
20 Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse; 21 for although they knew God they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking and their senseless minds were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man or birds or animals or reptiles. 24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever! Amen. 26 For this reason God gave them up to DISHONORABLE PASSIONS. Their women exchanged natural relations for UNNATURAL, 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error. 28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a base mind and to improper conduct. 29 They were filled with all manner of wickedness, evil, covetousness, malice. Full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity, they are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Though they know God’s decree that those who do such things deserve to die, they not only do them but approve those who practice them.